Xorg remap to old code

[yggdrasil75]

Including @clefebvre in the hopes this doesnt get locked without an answer or explanation like a related thread did.

Xorg has removed 2 years worth of updates due to personal quarrels between open source devs, making it significantly worse than all alternatives. Can the x11 and related packages in the mint apt repos be locked to before that intentional regression, if they will not be replaced with xlibre? I have used extrepo version of xlibre on mint for over a month now and have found no issues on my system (an amd 395+ with a 9060xt via thunderbolt. one of the more jank setups that would need to be tested) and instead seen major improvements (no tearing and games run better).

preventing new users from using intentionally regressed versions of x11 should be a bare minimum, even if Mint is still planning to slow roll towards wayland instead of just adopting xlibre that works as a drop-in replacement.

[Fantu]

Please, stop these pointless discussions and wasting time.
Those changes were only applied in the development git and never made it into the stable versions used by Debian and derivatives (including Mint).

The development git is used mainly by some companies and manufacturers, but those who used it and had problems with these commits also removed them manually, in addition to asking the xorg developers to revert them.

xorg is a large and delicate component, pushing for a change to xlibre now is unnecessary and would waste the Mint team's time.
The fact that it might work well or better in some tests of some users is not enough to determine that it is actually better. Even if it only causes regressions for a small number of users or even just rarely used programs, it would be a significant regression.

Years ago, I had already seen regressions in xorg during testing on Debian unstable + experimental. For experienced users, it is not a problem to operate from the terminal when xorg is not working and fix it, but for most Mint target users, it could be problematic.

[yggdrasil75]

Please stop these pointless complaints that make it seem as if there is only 1 option. Mint has 2 options, not 1.

Both xlibre and wayland require testing. not just xlibre, xlibre requires less testing than wayland since the majority of it already works, only the parts that have been changed need testing. If you mean with "years ago" more than 4, then chances are the regression you are referring to are not from the xlibre devs, but rather from the current wayland devs who just threw something together and moved back to wayland.

I dont get why people feel the need to complain about having more than 1 option. It would be like complaining that android exists when you think everyone should be on iphone. or vice-versa. Let people look at more than 1 option without immediately dismissing the reason for the second option, or you can just go to closed source instead where file types are kept cleanly defined and you have to pay to use them to make sure you dont stray out of line.

[Fantu]

One of the regressions seen was just a small example, regardless of who is or isn't to blame.

Leaving aside useless and harmful conflicts between people or ideologies, we need to look at things from a more practical perspective. Projects like this have limited resources, but most people don't realize this and make demands, also big.
The same applies to another more general discussion: https://github.com/orgs/linuxmint/discussions/1348#discussioncomment-15823434

These are problems that I have seen many times and unfortunately seem to be increasing.

However, in general, almost everyone who complains does so by demanding things from others and almost always without giving anything in return or understanding what they are actually asking for.

There are also many complaints about project decisions on what to implement and how, which in many cases may even seem logical, for example if it is different from what many users would like, but unfortunately they do not take into account how important the necessary resources are.

I'll give an example without going into details (to avoid unnecessary discussions on that specific software):
at work, we use a certain open-source software instead of a proprietary one, and people complain about some shortcomings and why they haven't been implemented in years despite requests from many. Instead, they have quickly implemented other more recent major features, some of which were less requested.
Logically, people like you would criticize this...
But if you think about it carefully: these features require a lot of time from expert developers, the users who request them contribute little or nothing, and those who finance them have mainly financed other features.
So it's normal that they have developed what is requested by those who provide almost all the funding and for which they have paid them.
You can't expect something to be done that is paid for by others or done by unpaid volunteers.
Rather than making demands, you should think carefully about what you are requesting and whether you should request it, or you should try to increase contributions to the project until they have enough, and then all those requests would not be a problem.

[yggdrasil75]

I am not making demands. I am asking what option will be picked and making some points about why one option is easier. You are not saying which option should be picked, just that we shouldnt even talk about it, shutting down any discussion. You are creating more problems and wasting your own time with this.

If mint is going for wayland, then it could be stated as much and that its because they are paid to move by ibm or microsoft or someone else. people would move on. If mint is going for xlibre then it could be stated as much and that its because they arent being paid and instead just taking an easier option to preserve resources. Instead we get the comment about how even talking about it pointless as if the decision is already made, but without the decision being public. the question is not "you have to use xlibre even if it costs more resources!" but rather "if a decision has been made, what will you pick?" and the discussion should be open until such a decision has been made.

[Axel-Erfurt]

This is once again such a pointless discussion.
There are enough distributions that offer wayland or xlibre.
There is no point in harassing Mint's developers.

If you want xlibre in Mint then install it.

[yggdrasil75]

This is once again such a pointless discussion. There are enough distributions that offer wayland or xlibre. There is no point in harassing Mint's developers.

If you want xlibre in Mint then install it.

If you cant add anything to the conversation why did you even post? stop being antagonistic and hate filled and move on.

[JosephMcc]

Enough. I can say that currently there are no plans to use XLibre. Will/Could that change? No idea. I can't tell the future.

What I do know is that these discussions aren't productive and can't stay friendly. I'm closing and locking this along with any others that get opened based on this subject for now.